Interview Transcript

Varun: Do you still subscribe to the left ideology?

Piyush: Being a leftist doesn’t mean that you become completely irresponsible towards your family. Left is good, till a particular age. After that it… either you become an absolute leftist, join the party – then you may be happy. Then Left can become a source of your living.

But if you are the hopeless romantic kind, who loves the ideology, then there is a problem. You have to see what you want to improve. You can’t help the society beyond a point. Society doesn’t need us. It never did. When I look back, I feel that even in the earlier days of Left – they did it for their own reasons, to stay active, fresh… they just used to say we are doing it for society.

V: So now you don’t have any stake or interest in politics?

P: My dealings with politics… I think I had only as much understanding even back then. I am a normal man, not a political commentator that… I will be a fool to say that I know something. It’s been like this always. Yes, I was aware. As Piyush Mishra, as an artist, I am as aware today as I was yesterday. (adds abruptly) Gulaal has got politics!

V: Yes, but people who know you since the ‘Act One’ days, they say that ‘Act One’ professed an ultra-leftist ideology, the philosophy that theatre and politics are the means to one and the same destination.

P: That’s okay. ‘Act One’ is done. ‘Act One’ taught me a lot. ‘Act One’s’ so-called ultra-leftist policy gave me enough. But it took away my peace. ‘Act One’ taught me how to live… (but) I believe, this so-called ultra-leftist politics of ‘Act One’ has people who are born with a silky-cushion under their backs. They are the only people who go the distance in Left. Otherwise, some odd one, occasionally, appears in a trance. Somebody gets killed in Sivan! “Now where is Sivan?” people start asking. Safdar Hashmi gets killed, furor breaks out, trusts are formed, random people, who don’t even know Safdar, they join the movement at Mandi House… publishing photos, hyper-activity, this, that, Sahmat!

To remember Chandrashekhar, we first have to find Sivan in the map. Where is Sivan? Who Sivan? What Sivan? Which Chandrashekhar? People who don’t even know Safdar, they come and want the mileage out of his name. Safdar’s work… Safdar’s work… I ask – What is Safdar’s work? I am not insulting him… He has done so much that we can’t even begin to… he has died a death of silence! (But) I don’t want a silent death. A theatre-wallah may have a beautiful youth, but theatre-wallah’s old-age, at least in India – I don’t think there is much hope.

Many of them go senile. And what do they achieve? Some golden dates, some decent issues… but haven’t you done enough? I mean, till when can you lick the old candies? Four years ago, when I used to go to Delhi, my attachment, nostalgia was too overbearing… I used to go to the places we rehearsed at –  Shakti School… Vivekanand… Life has changed, that time is gone. Good time that was, I learnt a lot, it gave me enough, but attachment should end.

V: N.K. Sharma (Act One’s Director) is still there (in Delhi), while people close to him kept moving to Mumbai… Manoj Bajpai, Deepak Dobriyal. What is his view? Leaving Theatre behind, you are moving to Cinema.

P: N.K. Sharma’s view you ask N.K. Sharma only. Neither am his spokesman… you ask him.

V: There is an aura about him in Bombay… He ‘makes’ actors.

P: Talk to him. Talk to him.

V: You consider yourself as an actor or poet first?

Piyush: There’s nothing like that.

V: Do you consider yourself an outsider in Bombay?

P: (misreading the question) Why would I? This is my place. My kid was born here. Why would I?

V: But outsider in the sense, I am talking about a professional outsider. You know, Theatre-wallahs are always given step-motherly treatment.

P: No ways… In fact, it’s the contrary. Theatre-wallahs are rather…

V: But the star-system never respected the theatre-talent…

P: Well… star-system is there. Star-system is necessary. Theatre-wallahs don’t even know the basic framework. I always wonder why theatre could not give beautiful faces. Theatre people are like me – ordinary looking, disfigured faces.

But then… you have Naseer, Om Puri… they are recognized. Anupam Kher too.

V: Yes, they are given due respect… but, it’s like a trick… respect them and put them on a pedestal, but don’t allow beyond that.

P: Everybody succeeds on self-capabilities. And they have done very well… even beyond their own expectations. What more do you want?

V: Talking about early days – there was this thing called ‘An Evening With Piyush Mishra’…

P: There were three plays, each an hour long. First one was ‘Doosri Duniya’ by Nirmal Verma saab, second was ‘Whatever Happened To Betty Lemon’ (by Arnold Wesker), and third was Vijaydaan Detha’s ‘Duvidha’. I didn’t have money or platform then – did these out of restlessness. And that somehow became a form – “look, he has made a new form”. It was not a form. When I left ‘Act One’ in ’95, I almost felt that I am finished. ‘Act One’ was more like a family. And after leaving that, this was something new I found.

V: Talking about ‘Gulaal’, there’s a song called ‘yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaaye toh’, then there’s a nazm by Bismil, some other songs have been reinterpreted. With these as background, what is your idea on originality?

P: I have taken just one line (from ‘yeh duniya agar mil bhi jaaye’ by Sahir Ludhianvi), and after that we have recreated the whole thing. All these things… you see, today’s generation has a new language. And you can’t even blame them. It’s not there, and what can be done? But if you want to communicate the sub-text of the same old song, that Bismil meant to say something like this… And you can’t communicate by being a purist… that he just said this much, and we will stick to that. And it’s not like that we have given meaning to his old lines… it’s all new poetry.

V: But still, this question of originality, it springs up again and again in the film industry. Music, stories, it’s everywhere. What’s your take on this?

P: I don’t know. In the name of ‘inspiration’ here (in the film industry), they copy everything. From head to toe, from A to Z!

V: You wrote the songs for ‘Black Friday’ too. They weren’t as recognized as ‘Gulaal’s’.

P: (thinks a bit) Well… Indian Ocean’s ‘Arre Ruk Ja Re Bandeh’ is a big hit. That’s one of their career’s best. They do live concerts… and according to them, that’s their greatest hit. But if only ‘Black Friday’ had done well, people would have known that Piyush Mishra has written the songs… Cinema doing well helps a lot. Actually, we theatre waalahs should accept defeat. We can’t compete with Cinema. It won’t happen until we have a theatre industry here.

And having an industry here is like… this country is so much ‘Hindi-vaadi’… there is no dynamism. Tradition has jammed all the progress here. They want ‘Hindi-Prayog’ (Experimental theatre in pure Hindi)! What the heck is Hindi-Prayog? Why not do what interests us? “Hindi Naatak… idiom should be Hindi”, arre nobody is writing Hindi idiom in plays. If somehow, accidentally, one new Hindi play arrives on the scene, people go mad – “hey…there is this new Hindi play.” Now they don’t want just a play, they want a pure Hindi play. They are so fascinated by the language! I have written so many plays, and not one of them was a Hindi play. They all were in Hindustani.

The line between academicians and theatre players has blurred. All the big theatre names are academicians, while the real doers are separate. The real theatre performers are looked down upon. “He is performing a play… but we know all about Naatya-shaastra!” Arre, go and teach the kids…

V: But you seem to believe that theatre is still working in Bombay… as compared to Delhi.

P: It’s extinct in Delhi. Theatre in Delhi came as a babudom triggered revolution. (mimicking) “What should we have in theatre? Intense emotions. Intense emotions of what kind? Leftist kind.” And topped by some strange kind of experimentation! Check out here (at Prithvi Theatre), it’s still running – Maanav (Kaul) has written this play (Titled: Park). This is a wonderful play… It’s Hindi play, it has Hindi idiom… What more do you want? Had it been in Delhi… they would have said, “No… it’s not Hindi Naatya.” What is Hindi Naatya? God knows. These oldies have messed India. I feel like abusing them.

V: But then where do you see NSD in all this?

P: NSD can’t be blamed. They generally stage outside plays.

V: But then, there are only two-three academic institutes for Theatre in India…

P: But this is a different lobby I am talking about. They believe only Hindi plays can bring about a revolution. There is a huge anti-Alkazi lobby. They believe that had he not been there (at NSD) and instead, some Hindi-supporter had been at the helm, things would have been much rosier. That man (Alkazi) held things together for such a long time. Had he not been there, we would have never learnt to write plays in two days… we were just chataayi-waalahs (people who sit on mats), that was our original worth… And we would have stayed the same. But that man taught us to say ‘excuse me’ after we cough. Such idiots are these Hindi-bhaashis, especially the ones from earlier generation, they are sifar (zero) in here (points to his forehead). They only know how to make fun, pass comments, make assumptions, but won’t give credit to a deserving man. Had Alkazi saab not been there, we would have had no theatre in India. We would still have been doing Parsi Theatre. Or maybe, some dry, stale plays. He introduced theatre actually in India.

V: What do you think of today’s media’s language. How they mix Hindi and English even in the News…

P: How much will you protect? Did classical music survive today? How much can you protect? How much? World is changing… it will. Whatever is necessary, let it change… If you hold tight enough, nobody will listen to you. Today’s context is different. And looking at Bombay, I think it has got a good language. Now if you expect a South Bombay kid to understand Urdu – that would be wrong. And there are still many people who have treasured their language… Maanav Kaul is still writing in Hindi, and what perfect Hindi he has. So if you let your language spoil, it will. But still, there is no need to raise flags, no need to say all should do this or that, let everybody do what he or she wants.